Production Reference
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Tatsumi Publishing's Sunrise Anime Complete History (サンライズ アニメ大全史) is a catalog of every TV series, OVA, and theatrical anime work released by the Sunrise studio as of the time of publication. It was published in two editions, first in July 1997 with the English title Sunrise Anime Super Data File, and then an updated version in June 2000 with the English title Sunrise Animation 2001. Each edition had a different selection of creator and staff interviews, and I've translated them all here. The following text is copyright © Tatsumi Publishing Co., Ltd. |
Profile
Born in 1947. Debuted as a mechanical designer on Science Ninja Team Gatchaman during his time at Tatsunoko Pro. His major works include the "Time Bokan" series (Tatsunoko Pro), and Mobile Suit Gundam, Armored Trooper Votoms, Whirlwind! Iron Leaguer, and the "Brave" series (Sunrise).
—When did you begin working with Sunrise, Mr. Okawara?
My first work was Daitarn 3. The plan for Daitarn 3 actually came before the one for Zambot 3.
I was at Tatsunoko Pro for about four years, but Tatsunoko doesn't really do robot shows. It was only at Sunrise that I started doing robot shows in earnest, and I started working with them after I'd left Tatsunoko. At that point I was just designing my robots by imitation.
—Did anything give you trouble in designing the Daitarn?
Since it was a robot for TV, I tried not to give it any quirks, and make it a robot that kids in the lower grades of elementary school would find straightforwardly cool. I also used previously existing robots as reference while I fleshed out my own image.
—The basic design of Sunrise robots was already apparent, with a decoration like that of a Japanese warrior's helmet on its forehead.
Well, after all, I suppose those helmets and armor are basically the flashiest thing that Japanese people are familiar with.
—And after Daitarn came Gundam.
Zambot and Daitarn had made money for the sponsors, so it seemed they were persuaded to give us a certain amount of freedom in creating the third one. The merchandising concept was that they could be combined in various permutations with a Core Fighter in the middle, but that never actually showed up onscreen.
—If they'd done that, it would have destroyed the worldview.
But the merchandising concept had already been finalized before that worldview was established.
—So was it a request from the sponsor?
At the time, these things were presented by the Sunrise side. Even with the Daitarn, I came up with the transformation gimmick, created a mockup, and demonstrated the entire structure to the sponsoring company's president. Then, after he'd approved it, I started on the design.
—I think you've already talked about Gundam many times, but what was it like to take something like the powered suit from the novel Starship Troopers and turn it into a TV robot?
Since we had Mr. Yoshikazu Yasuhiko back then, we figured that out pretty quickly. The Federation Forces mobile suits, especially the Guncannon, weren't that far removed from Mr. Yasuhiko's initial design.
—Director (Yoshiyuki) Tomino also drew some pretty detailed roughs. Did that make it a three-person collaboration?
No, Mr. Yasuhiko didn't touch the designs after he'd started working on the actual animation. It felt like I was just actualizing the roughs that Mr. Tomino produced. In general, I'm not a writer or an artist, and I think my job is just to put together everyone else's ideas. After all, there's no reason it has to be done a certain way.
—The "calves" of the Gundam's legs seem like the most inventive part of the design.
Previous robots had been assembled from blocks and cylinders, so I wanted to do something else when I was designing it. When Mr. Yasuhiko drew them, he made them more muscular, but I think it's probably good that he continued changing them. The first thing designers want to do is to figure out the robot's face and chest, but once those are finalized, they run out of steam. (laughs)
When Director Tomino said he wanted Gundam to be unlike any previous robot show, the entire staff responded with tremendous enthusiasm. So I felt I had to do likewise.
—Nowadays the image of Gundam is clearly defined, but how did it feel back then when you were involved in the production?
I was surprised when I saw the first episode. It gave me shivers. To think it had turned out to be a work like this! (laughs) When I saw the part where the Zakus enter the colony, I thought that I didn't care whether this work got good ratings, I was satisfied with it as a staff member.
—In Gundam, enemy mobile suits such as the Zaku also became popular, didn't they?
That was a time when the enemies weren't merchandised, so when it came to the enemy, any kind of design was fine. I think it was the result of them letting me design as I pleased.
—Gundams have now appeared that are pretty far removed from the original Gundam world.
G Gundam was a work with a totally different point of view from Mr. Tomino's Gundams, so there weren't really any constraints. Even on the sponsor side, it had been decided at an early stage that it should be completely different from any previous Gundam.
—At that point, did you immediately change your approach?
They were supposed to be robots representing each country, so I was able to do it relatively easily. I just thought of it as a different thing. I figured as long as they had horn decorations and chin beards, they'd end up being Gundams. (laughs) I had that kind of defiance. At first I was a little shy, and my designs for the "loser Gundams" were somewhat understated. But the director (Yasuhiro Imagawa) was steadily escalating things (laughs) so I realized I could do anything I liked, and I was able to change my approach at an early point.
—On Gundam W, the flavor was a little closer to Director Tomino's Gundam.
There, too, the director (Masashi Ikeda) requested that their images reflect their countries. Roughly speaking, those were Europe, America, the Middle East, Japan, and China. The sponsor also had requests regarding the weapons.
—Gundam plastic models became a runaway hit, and they even had an influence on the subsequent filmed works, didn't they?
I've worked alongside young model enthusiasts, and I've often gotten feedback from them. It let them see the work in three-dimensional form rather than as drawings.
—Do you build plastic models yourself?
I do love making things, but although I'm a hobbyist carpenter, I don't really build Gundam plastic models. The youngsters who come and visit me are all better at building them than I am. (laughs) So I don't feel like building them anymore.
—The latest plastic models are amazingly well made. Is there anything you now think about in the design process in response to this?
Not really. When you're talking about design, the real thing is ultimately the form which the people watching the filmed work become attached to. My position is that of a single staffer helping to create a film, and it's 100% about that film.
—In the "Brave" series, a dozen or more new robots show up every year. Isn't it hard work keeping that up for year after year? For example, every year there's a fixed theme like bullet trains, and every year you have to reinterpret them.
Since the transformation and combination gimmicks are developed on the Takara side, I'm just doing the external software. A bullet train is a bullet train, and it doesn't need much alteration. So my main focus is on the helmet and chest. Ultimately, it's my job to figure out how to make the completed gimmick look cool.
The concept doesn't really undergo a complete change with each new show. In the case of the "Brave" series, the merchandise is targeted at a fairly low age range. Thus the audience is continually turning over, and the designs don't need to grow up along with them.
—In GaoGaiGar, the main mecha gives a bulkier impression than previous ones.
Yes, it seems the director (Yoshitomo Yonetani) really likes it that way. Up until then, these things were usually decided between myself and the sponsor. But with GaoGaiGar, Mr. Ryosuke Takahashi joined us as a producer, the content was denser than usual, and the directorial side was much more particular, so there were a lot of requests.
—Did the advances in digital processing and computer graphics seen in GaoGaiGar have any effect on the design?
Not particularly. But of course, since anime is something drawn by human beings, I'm always thinking about the animators. For instance, even if there's a part I'd like to make a little more detailed, I have to hold back. But when it's turned into CG, we can do any kind of mechanism (laughs), and I can do it without holding back. Of course that's a point of difference.
Animation isn't necessarily going to be lose to CG, and I don't believe it will ever disappear as a medium of expression. So I think I'd like to do both.
—What have you gained from your work with Sunrise?
The head of planning was someone who loved children and loved robots, and there were few other Japanese anime production companies that were consistently making robot shows. So the greatest plus for me was that I was able to join up with a company like that from such an early stage, and take my time doing somewhat experimental things with each work.
—Which works made the biggest impression on you?
I don't really watch my own works, but I do watch the first episodes. I watched all of Iron Leaguer, however. In some respects, I personally enjoy shows like Iron Leaguer and Yatterman (Tatsunoko Pro). But I think it's less stressful when you can do things that require you to be mindful of model fans, and things that don't, at the same time. (laughs)
—By the way, what do you make of Neon Genesis Evangelion (Gainax/Tatsunoko Pro)?
It's good, isn't it? There's a sequence and a system for activating the mecha. Eva reminded me that it's not a mecha show unless you follow that sequence and show it properly. Super Dimension Fortress Macross (Tatsunoko Pro/Anime Friend) was also a plus for me in that sense.
—Please tell us about your aspirations for the future.
Of course, even when you're planning, you can't really do as you please unless the plan starts with an initial pilot. When the plan already has a sponsor, there are too many constraints, and it's hard to make a film that's worth watching in its own right. Unless you can do a pilot film first, then look for a sponsor to make the work, you won't be able to make a robot show like the ones that are coming next. So I'm working on various things for that purpose. But there are a lot of things I can't talk about yet. (laughs)
Profile
Born in 1940. He came to Sunrise by way of Hatena Pro and OH! Pro. His major works include The Unchallengeable Daitarn 3, Armored Trooper Votoms, Panzer World Galient, and Yoroiden Samurai Troopers. He is still active in the illustration field, and is doing visual concept work for The King of Braves GaoGaiGar.
—What was your first job with Sunrise?
My first job was when I joined a work called Reideen the Brave (Tohokushinsha/production cooperation: Sunrise) halfway through. It was episode 16 or so, and I was responsible for half of it. Up until then, I'd been working for Toei, but I'd never really done any SF. In that sense, it was refreshing, and Mr. Yoshikazu Yasuhiko's characters were very appealing. That was stimulating. It suited me pretty well, so I decided I'd do a whole episode next time.
This may be surprising to people nowadays, but I did both the key animation and the animation direction. The work wasn't divided up like it is now. But as an animator, I could take charge of the entire episode myself. I could decide for myself where to put my effort and which parts suited me, and as I did that, I think I came to genuinely understand the fun of animation. So in that sense, Reideen was the work that really made me get serious about the job of animation.
—And Daitarn 3 was the first time you designed main characters.
That's right. On that work, Mr. Tomonori Kogawa designed the villains, and I did the hero characters. Mr. Kogawa is a really unique person, and that was definitely a stimulus for me. I was drawing the main characters as good guys, but I felt they were overwhelmed by the greater sense of presence, and the higher quality, of the villains drawn by Mr. Kogawa. I thought that just wouldn't do, and that work really spurred me onward.
—After that, you served as chief animation director on Dougram.
I was involved from the middle of the planning stage, but Mr. Soji Yoshikawa created the original versions of the characters, and I was told to adapt them in a Shioyama style. Mr. Yoshikawa's characters were very individual, and it felt as if he'd sketched images that were already fully formed inside his head. It didn't feel like a manga artist drawing familiar characters based on his own quirks and habits.
In that work, the lines of the heroines' cheekbones were drawn in. That was often done when you were trying to represent illness and so forth, but deliberately putting them in gave the heroines an entirely new kind of image, and it really expressed the characters' individuality. That, too, was very stimulating. What's more, the work's hard content was aimed at a high-target audience, so that may have helped convey a sense of direction. I thought I should do the same thing on the following Votoms.
—Votoms was a 100% Shioyama world.
Well, since it was 100%, I had to do it (laughs). And if I was doing it, I couldn't make anything ambiguous. Of course, a lot of people were involved in creating the world of the work, so there was a certain amount of indecisive back-and-forth. But I think it was thanks to my experience on those previous works that I was able to undertake it without holding back, and without overstraining myself.
—According to the setting, the character of Chirico is 18 years old, but he's drawn to look like an adult.
At first, his image was more delicate. His heart had been wounded by war. But as the episodes progressed, the world began to develop into one where the weak couldn't survive. Even the way the character was constructed, he isn't what you'd call a pretty-boy character with big eyes and flowing hair. At first glance, he looks mild and quiet, but it was also requested that even his normal demeanor should seem like that of a superhuman professional who does what he has to. It seemed cooler to depict him that way, so I guess he looks a little older. Personally, I think an 18-year-old is an 18-year-old. (laughs)
—Chirico has very few expressions.
There had never been a hero with so little expression, so I wondered how I could show his emotions. This may sound a little pretentious, but I figured it would be the view from behind. I always thought it would be good if we could express his past and his sense of isolation through a rear view.
So I thought about the subtle appearance of Chirico's rear view, and even where the center of gravity was in his body and how much it would sink into the ground. Unlike the characters I'd previously handled, I didn't want the character to simply be there, I was thinking about his sense of presence. And it was also a work that allowed me to do something like that.
—Did you discuss these things in detail with Director (Ryosuke) Takahashi?
No, I didn't. I was just fumbling in the dark, and it wasn't something that had been decided beforehand. It was a time when it was becoming fashionable to describe things as "moody," and personally I had some resistance to that term. (1) I didn't think it was a problem. On the contrary, I said, wouldn't it be terrible to have a world where nobody was moody? Even if you're not trying to encourage moodiness, I figured it would be fine to have a character like that.
—After that, you had another major hit with Samurai Troopers.
That's right. It was a work that just seemed to come out of nowhere, and it attracted a fandom completely different from Chirico's. It certainly got more fan mail than Votoms.
—I thought of the fans of Sunrise works as being mainly male, but the number of female fans suddenly increased with Samurai Troopers.
So it seems. At first, we were targeting little kids. But for some reason it started gaining popularity with young women after it started airing, and when we eventually became aware of that on the creative side (laughs) we began putting in more sex appeal.
—Oh, really. It did seem like they were prettier towards the end than when it started airing...
At first we weren't thinking of them as beautiful characters at all, but by the end, they were being talked about as exemplars of the beautiful character type. Personally, I never thought I was capable of drawing beautiful characters, so that was pretty weird. Anyway, the problem I had was to distinguish the five young men, but as I tried drawing them their individual personalities started to become clear, and I was able to express those personalities in their appearances as well.
—Do you have any kind of models when you're creating characters? Your character designs feel like you could cast them.
Yes, just as you say. Even where there isn't a particular actor, it could be an athlete or a politician. Once an image comes to me, I'll sometimes envision a particular person as I draw, and then add color. There were some of those in Votoms as well. Chirico is modeled on a certain American actor, in my own style.
Completely separate from that, I'll also draw circles and squares on paper, add facial features, and see if I can turn them into characters with a sense of presence. Anime is two-dimensional, after all, so naturally it has its limits. I can come up with some crazy ideas doing things like that.
—What kind of ideas?
For example, with Mardoul in Galient, you'd never see an actual person with a protruding head like that. I thought it would be interesting if we had someone with a head like that, unlike a real person. It's also interesting that recently, when I was drawing some original illustrations, I ended up including people with heads like Mardoul's.
Personally, I really like Mardoul. Part of the fun of creating characters is seeing how differently you can draw them. Dougram was the probably the work that first enabled me to do that, and the stimulus I received from Mr. Yasuhiko and Mr. Yoshikawa was immense.
—Your latest work is GaoGaiGar, but what exactly is a "visual concept" job?
During meetings in the planning stage, my role is to listen to the staff's opinions and turn their ideas into concrete images.
—GaoGaiGar makes bold use of computer graphics. What are your thoughts on the relationship between CG and cel anime?
I saw a preview of episode 1 the other day, and I felt it was definitely using CG effectively. It adds depth to the work in areas that couldn't be drawn by hand. But CG can still feel unpleasant, with its slick feeling. When that comes to the forefront, it ceases to be stimulating. I think cel anime is still central, and the question is how effectively it can be used within that. In the end, it's a question of the appeal of the work itself, and in that case I don't think it's a matter of whether it's hand-drawn or CG.
—In what direction would you like to see this ultimately resolved?
As CG develops, I suppose one direction is to see how realistic the representation can become, like the Western films Jurassic Park and Jumanji. By making the simulation more and more elaborate, you can depict landscapes from a primitive era and make them look real. But personally, I'm not that impressed if you can reproduce the world of imagination and the ideas inside your head.
This is a slight digression, but the other day, I was watching a black-and-white Johnny Weissmuller Tarzan movie. There weren't any special effects or anything, but there was a scene on the edge of a cliff with Jane, the villain, and a real lion. Of course the lion was probably a trained one, but I was really impressed by it. When I see amazing scenes made with modern CG, I may think they're great, but that's just a reaction to how well the pictures are made. As for which one gets my heart racing, it's the Tarzan movie.
—Finally, please tell us about your aspirations for the future.
Well, then. I'd like to once again create a world that personally satisfies me, with the image of a new hero that's neither Votoms nor Samurai Troopers. Rather than a metallic world of mecha, I'd like it to be one with more nature, for example another world with beautiful skies and beautiful forests and rivers, which boys and girls are working to protect. (2) I want to depict a fantastic world of profound mysteries.
(1) The Japanese term Shioyama is referencing here is ネクラ (nekura) which means "gloomy," "pessimistic," or "introverted." I've opted for "moody" to incorporate the latter nuance, though I was very tempted to render it as "emo." I assume this is the same term that Votoms expert Tim Eldred translates as "dark-rooted" on his ArtValt website.
(2) Yes, Shioyama literally is saying he'd like to do an isekai (異世界) story.
Profile
Born in 1951. He joined Sunrise in 1977, and worked as a production assistant on Fighting General Daimos (Toei/production cooperation: Sunrise). He first served as a producer on Crusher Joe, and went on to works such as Dirty Pair, Mashin Hero Wataru, and Brave Fighter Exkizer. In 1994, he became the company's president.
—First, please give us a simple profile of yourself.
My first job was as a production assistant on Fighting General Daimos. I first served as a producer on the Crusher Joe movie, and after that I went on to produce things like Giant Gorg and Dirty Pair.
—What originally motivated you to join Sunrise?
I had a tentative job offer from a certain big company, but... I suppose I wanted to do creative work. I wasn't particularly obsessed with animation, though. In those days, Sunrise was producing an increasing number of original works, so they were short of manpower. I was introduced to them by an acquaintance at Mushi Pro, and I thought I'd try it just as a part-time job... In hindsight, it was good timing.
—What was the atmosphere at Sunrise like back then?
It had less money and weirder energy than it does now. Every night, the directors, animators, and other creators would debate dramatic theory while they boozed it up at cheap bars. In the best sense, it was tremendously irresponsible. (laughs) For the first few years after I joined, my strongest impressions were of going to work and reading books, drinking, and playing for the Sunrise baseball club they had back then. It was an overwhelmingly free-spirited atmosphere.
At the time, there were three production studios and about fifty employees. It was less than half its current size. It was an era when animation was less socially acknowledged, but we had much more freedom than we do now.
—As for the works you were involved in, many of them were aimed at younger audiences. Were you consciously putting an effort into developing genres for young children?
Sunrise has many high-target works aimed at middle- and high-school students and older. Those are important for its reputation, but when we considered whether that alone was enough, we thought it would also be good if we had a line of low-target works aimed at elementary-school students and younger.
Nonetheless, there was resistance within the company when we started the "Brave" series. People said it didn't suit our brand, that Sunrise's works should reflect the beliefs and sensibilities of the creators—meaning they may have a narrow scope, but they can win the support of passionate fans. With low-target works, on the other hand, you have to eliminate such aspects and concentrate on entertainment.
In that respect, at first glance, it may seem that these works tend to be just kid stuff. But we convinced everyone that they'd expand Sunrise's scope, and I'm glad they ended up being successful.
—These days, animation relies on other media for original stories. But the general image of Sunrise works is that you're longtime purveyors of highly original robot shows, that you're maniacs and diehards. How do you feel about this image becoming entrenched?
I suppose this image, and the fact that we can make works like that, is part of the company culture. In other words, it's our tradition. So we're always saying that if you come to Sunrise, you can make original works, create cutting-edge imagery, and try all kinds of things.
—Why is it that they can do that at Sunrise?
Sunrise's overriding principle is that it's sponsor-driven. So as long as you fulfill the sponsor's expectations to some extent, you can make whatever kind of show you want to. In other words, we've secured an environment where creators can do as they please when it comes to the content of the work and the messages it contains. I suppose the Sunrise brand was born from the works that were launched in this way.
Frankly, I think this situation came about half intentionally and half accidentally. But our role as a launchpad for original works is valuable to creators, so we have to preserve those characteristics. And it's also important for us to further establish an environment that's welcoming to creators.
—What do you think about the future of softer robot lines like Wataru?
I think they're important. Of course, we have no intention of abandoning the real robot line and shifting everything to this. I think even the "Brave" series is distinct from the works of other companies, but it's sufficiently entertaining for elementary-school students. You can't really show them Evangelion, can you? I'd even say that about our own "(First) Gundam."
—The "Brave" series has continued for eight years. Was it hard to support low-target works for this long?
If we do it for too long, our reputation will suffer. (laughs) But GaoGaiGar is good, right? In a sense, the target for that one is a little different (from what was intended for the "Brave" series). The original target for the "Brave" series was three- to five-year-olds. They were works in the same category as Anpanman (Kyokuichi Tokyo Movie) and Doraemon (Shin-Ei Animation).
But if you make shows along the same lines for long enough, the creators will get bored, and they'll become repetitive. You don't want that to seep into the works themselves, so we've come up with various ways to keep the creators from getting tired of it. In that respect, GaoGaiGar is expressing the intrinsic nature of Sunrise, isn't it? Whether we ought to be expressing it in this series is a different matter.
—What do you think about the beautiful-boy approach? For a long time, Sunrise has had the image of being exclusively boy-oriented, but ever since Samurai Troopers it seems you've been actively trying to attract girl viewers.
We are somewhat conscious of female fans, but we're not deliberately trying to establish a beautiful-boy line. When we make ensemble hero shows, we have to differentiate the individual characters, so that the viewers can empathize with any of the heroes. But on the other hand, we couldn't make a work with a lineup of five girls, because the boys who are our main target would find it hard to empathize with them.
—Sunrise has been incorporating computer graphics in its anime from a fairly early point. In particular, over the last few years, a succession of works have pushed CG into the forefront. Will the proportion of CG continue to increase in the future?
CG is just a tool, a means of expression, so this doesn't mean that CG is better than anime. As long as we can resolve the problems of cost and time, I'd like us to be a company that can make use of any and all tools. The real struggle over CG is just beginning, so I'd like us to be aggressive in using it.
—It's startling to see 3D objects appearing onscreen in TV anime.
People will get tired of it soon enough. (laughs) In the end, technology is just technology, and what's important is whether it's interesting as a work and how it's dramatized.
—You've always been the frontrunner when it comes to robot shows, but last year (1996) the frontrunner was Evangelion, which came from another company. How did it feel to see somebody else take the lead for the first time?
The fact that work became so topical was stimulating for us, and I believe it was even more stimulating for the creators. I think it revitalized the industry itself, which had grown a little exhausted. That's a very good thing.
However much we advocate for the possibilities of original robot shows, the manufacturers and sponsors keep saying "Times have changed, haven't they?" and "That already ended with Gundam." But with the appearance of Evangelion, they've recognized anew that there's still a market out there.
—How many works does Sunrise currently have in the planning stage?
There are five or six high-target works in planning. As for Gundam, 1998 is the twentieth anniversary of the launch of "(First) Gundam," so we want to make another Gundam TV series. We'd also like to do a movie if possible.
—As company president, I'd like to hear your vision for Sunrise as it rapidly approaches the 21st century.
My vision of our future, and the future of the anime industry, is that outside capital like Sony and the major game makers will enter the industry in various ways. It'll be a scary time. As a constant frontrunner in the industry, we want to be the number one company in terms of original works, so I'd like us to be a production group that advocates for the creators.
When something like Eva comes out and people realize that anime is a profitable market, capital flows in from all over. But if they decide it's not profitable, they'll surely run away again. At that point, I expect anime creators will leave for the game industry, which offers them more individual income. So we have to put a business infrastructure in place to avert that.
—What specific actions are you taking?
As of last year, Sunrise has implemented an incentive bonus system. This generates performance fees for series directors and producers who've created hit works. (1) If they come up with a hit work like Gundam, an individual can earn hundreds of millions of yen. That's an incentive for creators, right?
Given the "Japanimation" boom, and the growth of digital satellite and multichannel services, the demand for Japanese anime is sure to increase. When that happens, I want us to be a company that can build a structure that gives us a reasonable relationship with the creators.
—And what about Sunrise's positioning within the industry?
I think the characteristics of the production companies in this industry can be summed up in two companies. They're either like Toei Doga or (Studio) Ghibli. (2) Toei Doga is a company where the faces of the creators aren't shown, and can't be seen. You don't know who's making it, but Toei Doga's brand and quality are clearly present. Ghibli, on the other hand, is virtually the face of Mr. (Hayao) Miyazaki.
Among such companies, I'd like Sunrise to be somewhere in between. We're always showing someone's face, but it's not just one person. We're a company that shows different faces from moment to moment. I want us to be a group of producers that supports these talented people.
(1) Yoshii is using the English loanword "guarantee" (ギャランティー) here, but I think this has a different nuance in Japanese. On the other hand, calling it a "royalty" would imply ownership of the property in question, which isn't necessarily the case.
(2) Toei Doga changed its official English name to "Toei Animation" in 1998.
Profile
Born January 11, 1943 in Tokyo Metropolis. In 1963, he left the company at which he'd been working, and the following year he joined Mushi Production. He expected to be assigned to the animation department, but instead he became a production assistant on Mighty Atom. He then debuted as an episode director on W3. Becoming a freelancer in 1969, he formed Group Dirt with some friends in 1970. He first served as a series director on 0-Tester, one of Soeisha's launch works. After this he established Studio Akabanten.
Major Works
Mighty Atom (production assistant), W3 (episode director), Dororo (episode director), Goku no Daibouken (episode director), Animal 1 (episode director), 0-Tester (series director), Manga Nippon Mukashi Banashi (episode director), Dougram (series director), Votoms (series director), The Silent Service (series director), Akuma to Himegimi (series and episode director), Mama Is Just a Fourth Grade Pupil (script), Konpeki no Kantai (script), Nurse Angel Ririka SOS (directorial cooperation), Kodomo no Omocha (directorial cooperation), Rurouni Kenshin (directorial cooperation), The Silent Service 2 (series director), The King of Braves GaoGaiGar (producer), Gasaraki (series director)
—When did you first become involved with Sunrise?
The founders had been my seniors at Mushi Pro. The year after the company was founded (1973), Hazedon ended and all their production staff left, so they didn't have anyone at the production site. Then a senior I was close friends with got in touch with me. I hadn't yet decided whether I wanted to keep working in anime at that point, but they didn't have any other candidates for a director, and I didn't have anyone else to look after me. That's why I signed up for 0-Tester.
—Are you proud to have been, in the truest sense, a part of Sunrise's grassroots era?
I really wasn't part of it. Sunrise is basically a company that specializes in robot shows, with Gundam of course at the apex. I'd already left by the time of their first robot show, Reideen, so I don't feel like I led Sunrise in any particular direction. I parted ways with Sunrise after 0-Tester ended, and Studio Akabanten became my base of operations. (1) I helped with a few episodes of Mr. Nagahama's works, so there's an emotional connection there, but I was far removed in terms of the work.
—What was the reason you parted ways with Sunrise?
I get asked that a lot these days. (wry laughter) But it wasn't anything to do with 0-Tester. When I joined Mushi Pro, I was assigned to the directing department... At the time, I didn't yet know what directing was, but I felt strongly that my seniors and colleagues wre overflowing with talent. So even after 0-Tester, I wasn't confident I'd be able to make it as a director. Thinking that there might be an art form or an industry out there that suited me a little better, I parted ways with Sunrise, and went on to do commercials as well as Group TAC's Manga Nippon Mukashi Banashi and Manga Ijin Monogatari. (2) Meanwhile, I was also directing live-action documentary programs.
—Please tell us what led to your return in 1979 with Cyborg 009.
Just like with 0-Tester, it was due to the situation at Sunrise. At the time, they were responsible for five regular programs, so they called me in because they naturally didn't have enough people. But I intended to leave again when it was over, since I didn't feel like directing another TV series. In the middle of this, Gundam started, and it really shocked me. "So you can do things like this in a TV series?!" It wasn't a successful work when it originally aired, but by the time my own 009 ended, Gundam was starting to show some signs of becoming a hit... (3) And when it became a smash hit, that led to my third job with Sunrise. (laughs)
—That was your appointment as director of Dougram.
This isn't necessarily a fully developed theory, just something I've tried to piece together... The success of Gundam was somewhat abnormal, so subsequent Sunrise works started leaning towards something like Gundam. The same was true of the personnel. Given the kind of person Mr. Tomino is, once he gets going, he can't be stopped. Sunrise had to keep making other works, but at the same time, it also needed other people.
Mr. Tomino and I worked together at Mushi Pro, and after that he helped me a lot with 0-Tester, so at the time they couldn't find anyone else who'd be able to make another distinctive work without being knocked aside by Mr. Tomino. Back then, they didn't know Gundam was going to become such a big deal, so Sunrise needed a steady supply of new works if they were going to use its success as a springboard to become a more stable production company. I think I was also singled out because they wanted someone with a different aura.
—Dougram must have been a very significant experience for you.
I started on Dougram with the idea that we couldn't make something just like Gundam, and it had to have a different tone. Along the way, I began to feel that I might be in a position to create an original TV series. That was the first time I'd deliberately involved myself in a TV series, in the sense of creating an original story for TV.
On Dougram, I was co-directing with the late Mr. Takeyuki Kanda. He was the same age as me, and a colleague at Mushi Pro. Since I was responsible for the original work, I stepped aside after episode 30 and entrusted the direction entirely to Mr. Kanda, so I could focus on the original work—that is, on creating scripts.
This work was a turning point for me, and it's the reason I've stayed in the world of TV animation up until now. I entered the anime world at the age of 21, and I wasn't sure I was going to make it until I was 38 or 39, when Dougram was over. What was worrying me in the meantime was that I had so little knowledge of manga and anime. I felt very strongly that I couldn't compete with the people around me who had a greater store of knowledge, and it was only through Dougram that I came to believe I could do it.
Since I'm translating things from the real world, or from the worlds of film and literature, into TV anime, I can't make that many of them. I'm skipping ahead, but I wanted to make Galient in an easygoing fashion, by mashing up robots with swords and sorcery in a world based on Toei period dramas from my elementary-school days such as Shinshokoku Monogatari Beni Kujaku and Fuefuki Douji, but with Western-style armor. (4) Mr. Shioyama's drawing style was perfect for Galient, so that gave me no trouble. The only trouble I had was with the ratings. (wry laughter)
—Was Votoms, which followed Dougram, your own original plan from the beginning?
Takara's Dougram toys had sold well, and TV Tokyo's ratings were also good, so it was easy for me to get my own way. And since the person who'd dragged me over to Sunrise for 0-Tester had now become a manager at Takara, we'd established a certain relationship of mutual trust. (5) I was able to create the work freely, with no outside interference. On Dougram, the robot itself had already been completed in Mr. Okawara's mind, but on Votoms we discussed it between ourselves as he worked.
—The Scopedog was really impressive, with all those cool details not seen in traditional robots.
The setting for Dougram was that they were eight to ten meters, but I was concerned that was a drawback for bipedal robots. How could they be effective as weapons?! It was created to be a commercial product, so there was no point in arguing with it, but it bothered me. If they were existing weapons, they'd be positioned as tanks, but in Votoms I envisioned them as jeeps or armored vehicles. That's because in Gundam, they're about eighteen meters. Whether the robots are eighteen meters, less than ten meters, or fifty meters, their depiction ends up being the same. Even if there were slight differences in the story, given the directorial techniques of the time, I had no choice but to rely on shooting from angles that emphasized how big they were. Thus I decided to make them about four meters, which I thought was the minimum size at which robots could exist.
After the war, you often saw the Allied occupation forces driving around town in jeeps. I'd heard these were tougher and more functional than wartime Japanese trucks and fighting vehicles. They were released as mass-produced goods after the war, and in Japan, these were still used for civil engineering work for a very long time. In the past, races using customized jeeps were also popular. A situation in which something originally intended for military use was released to civilians came to mind without my having to thing about it. So in Votoms, there's the idea that some people earn money from robot pro wrestling, using robots that are no longer needed now the war is over.
—Both Dougram and Votoms are works that take place in a war situation.
Of course I can't endorse or glorify it, but in the end, war does produce a lot of drama. My strongest image of war is the Vietnam War. So there had to be jungles and marshes... or in terms of movies, going up a river like in Apocalypse Now. In Votoms there's even an episode (episode 21) titled "Upriver," which projects a comprehensive image of the Vietnam War.
—In Dougram you can feel the ambience of North African independence movements, and even the student protests. (6)
That's right. A lot of movies were set in French colonies, too. It was a colonial power that didn't recognize independence so easily, so in that sense, Africa was a rich reservoir of wars... I didn't directly participate at all in the student movement or the Anpo protests. There were a lot of people who were taking it lightly, as if it were just a fad, so I reacted against that a little. I felt that you shouldn't trifle with politics like you were going crazy over a rock band. Although maybe I'm trifling with it by using in TV series and robot shows. (wry laughter) But everybody has their own ideas about that.
—Your most recent work, Gasaraki, depicted the descendants of free people from the Middle Ages. In addition to the legendary elements, the Self-Defense Forces characters were very appealing. There are some differences between the Maritime and Ground Self-Defense Forces, but were you able to use the research you did during The Silent Service?
This is true for anything, but it's hard to create fiction without knowing anything about reality. I actually asked a few Self-Defense Forces members about how they talk and what kinds of lives they lead, and I think the advantage of not starting from zero is that it helped me make up my mind.
Actually, I created Gasaraki with the idea of doing Dougram again more than a decade later. Back then, I was directing a robot show for the first time, in the shadow of the huge hit called Gundam, so I was fumbling my way along as I made it. I felt I'd given it all I had, but I hadn't figured out what I wanted to do. This time, I wanted to include a variety of elements and see for myself which would be the most expansive and interesting. Votoms was made to be cohesive, but not to allow for expansion.
Though Gasaraki had legendary elements, I also wanted to incorporate Self-Defense Forces members who had a lot of realism and everyday sensibilities. Japanese views and American views... That's a personal theme I've carried over from The Silent Service, but now I've added the aspect of "What do Japanese people think of Americans?" I worry that I spread myself too thin, and I regret that I didn't let the robots do enough. (wry laughter) There were only about three episodes where they worked properly.
—Why didn't you do another TV series for more than ten years after SPT Layzner ended?
The truth is, after doing three or four original works, I was exhausted as a creator. It was also a time when Sunrise was thinking about swapping out its creators, so I thought I'd take a little break. And then, before I knew it, more than a decade had passed. (laughs)
—Around the same time, you did a script and storyboards for Historical Drama in a Moonless Night: Jinsuke's Ears. That had a folkloric flavor to it.
I wanted to make something where you wouldn't feel the sharpness of digital compositing. I also made use of my experience doing more than a dozen episodes of Mukashi Banashi. Even I could do a drawing like that, but I suppose the best thing about Sunrise's production environment is that it can also integrate multiple talents in its robot shows to create richer works.
—With GaoGaiGar, you stepped away from your position as director, and produced for the first time.
Well, it was the first time I was credited for it. But I've been working in the same kind of position ever since Layzner, performing the job of producer at a different distance than when I'm creating a work entirely by myself. I'm basically just there to help out... Also, in April, I opened a "Ryosuke prep school" on the Sunrise homepage, where I'm involved in scouting new talents to serve as external brains.
—Please tell us about your plans for the future.
I have a novel coming out from Shueisha in July, set in the same world as Gasaraki with a photojournalist as the protagonist. (7) I'll keep on writing until it can eventually be filmed, so please do read it.
(1) I'm translating 離れる (hanareru) as "part ways" here, rather than "leave," because Takahashi was a freelance contractor rather than a company employee.
(2) Group TAC was another animation studio formed by former Mushi Pro staff.
(3) Takahashi's Cyborg 009 series ended in late March 1980.
(4) The Toei films Takahashi mentions here are the Shinshokoku Monogatari Beni Kujaku (新諸国物語・紅孔雀) or "Crimson Peacock" series and Shinshokoku Monogatari Fuefuki Douji (新諸国物語・笛吹童子) or "Flute-Playing Boy," both from 1954.
(5) This person would be Kiyomi Numoto, one of the original founders of Sunrise.
(6) 学生闘争 (gakusei tōsō) refers to the protests that took place in Japanese universities in the late 1960s. These continued into 1970, when Yoshikazu Yasuhiko was forced to leave school because of his involvement in the protests.
(7) Titled Dead Point, this novel was published in two volumes in the summer of 2000.
Mobile Suit Gundam is copyright © Sotsu • Sunrise. Everything else on this site, and all original text and pictures, are copyright Mark Simmons.
